Discussion:
Is a faggot more likely to be a pedophile? Absolutely!
(too old to reply)
Don C.
2011-12-15 19:25:52 UTC
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Snip!
My opinion is simply that it behooves decent homosexuals ,should any
exist in these forums , to disassociate themselves from pedophile
apologists and propagandists for incest,bestiality and sexual abuse
of corpses if they wish to counter the fears for their children
of the ordinary folk you so obviously despise and look down on.
In the world of the sane no evidence is required for such an opinion.
You can hold all the irrational fears you like; but the world doesn't have
to change to help you cope.
And without evidence, your fears are irrational.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior. They even admit it.

"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
“Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
M.I. Wakefield
2011-12-15 19:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don C.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior. They even admit it.
"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
“Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
Meanwhile, scratching all the pedophiles rarely finds a homosexual.
LURKER
2011-12-16 02:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by M.I. Wakefield
Post by Don C.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior. They even admit it.
"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
$)A!0Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
Meanwhile, scratching all the pedophiles rarely finds a homosexual.
Odd then that "RamRod" finds thousands of posts in his
alt.support.boy-lovers group isn't it.

Are you trying to suggest homosexuals are not "boy lovers"?
M.I. Wakefield
2011-12-16 02:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by LURKER
Post by M.I. Wakefield
Post by Don C.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior. They even admit it.
"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
$)A!0Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
Meanwhile, scratching all the pedophiles rarely finds a homosexual.
Are you trying to suggest homosexuals are not "boy lovers"?
§pamduster
2011-12-16 02:47:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by LURKER
Post by M.I. Wakefield
Post by Don C.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior. They even admit it.
"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
$)A!0Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
Meanwhile, scratching all the pedophiles rarely finds a homosexual.
Are you trying to suggest homosexuals are not "boy lovers"?
"Çons®@
2011-12-16 08:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by LURKER
Post by M.I. Wakefield
Post by Don C.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior. They even admit it.
"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
$)A!0Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
Meanwhile, scratching all the pedophiles rarely finds a homosexual.
Are you trying to suggest homosexuals are not "boy lovers"?
M.I. Wakefield
2011-12-16 02:38:59 UTC
Permalink
"LURKER" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

Snip!
Post by LURKER
Are you trying to suggest homosexuals are not "boy lovers"?
Since I'm not gay or a pedophile, I can only rely on the science:

Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied
175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault
against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual
orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were
classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were
classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and
Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on
occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this
attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who
were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..."


Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed
to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole
Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of
the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse
clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July
1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer
than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269
cases (Jenny et al., 1994).

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

You've yet to present any credible evidence to back up your opinions.
LURKER
2011-12-16 05:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by M.I. Wakefield
Snip!
Post by LURKER
Are you trying to suggest homosexuals are not "boy lovers"?
Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied
175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault
against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual
orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were
classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were
classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and
Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on
occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this
attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who
were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..."
Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed
to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole
Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of
the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse
clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July
1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer
than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified �C only 2 of the 269
cases (Jenny et al., 1994).
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
You've yet to present any credible evidence to back up your opinions.
You really consider cherry picking an ancient study, that was firmly
debunked over 33 years ago, and cutting and pasting it science?

Even the pedophile apologists you seem to run with know better.

~ TAXONOMIES OF OFFENDERS ~

http://www.ipce.info/host/howitt/1c.htm

One way of simplifying the maze of information about offenders is to
categorize them into broad types sharing common characteristics. Among
the most significant taxonomies is fixation versus regression (Groth
and Birnbaum, 1978). They had investigated convicted child sexual
assaulters in Massachusetts in the 1970s. In every case there had been
physical contact with the child. On the basis of this, two categories
-- fixated and regressed -- were proposed:

"'Fixation' is defined as a temporary or permanent arrestment of
psychological maturation resulting from unresolved formative issues
which persist and underlie the organization of subsequent phases of
development. A fixated offender has from adolescence been sexually
attracted primarily or exclusively to significantly younger persons.
Sexual involvement with peer-age or older person, were this has
occurred, has been situational in nature and has never replaced the
primary sexual attraction to and preference for underage persons."
(Groth and Birnbaum, 1978, p. 176)

"'Regression' is defined as a temporary or permanent appearance of
primitive behavior after more mature forms of expression had been
attained, regardless of whether the immature behavior was actually
manifested earlier in the individual's development. A regressed
offender has not exhibited any predominant sexual attraction to
younger persons during his sexual development -- if any such
involvement did occur during adolescence, it was situational or
experimental in nature. Instead, this individual's socio-sexual
interests have focused on peer-age or adult persons primarily or
exclusively."
(Groth and Birnbaum, 1978, p. 177)

While this may make good sense, it holds a convenient subtext for
offenders. In Groth and Birnbaum's sample there were clear life

[Page 19]

experience differences between the two types. Marriage, for instance,
was rare among fixated offenders (only 12%), but common in the
regressed type (75%). Strangers or acquaintances were the most ,
frequent victims of fixated offenders (83% of cases); for regressed
offenders, victims were more often friends or relatives (53% of
cases).

The two types perpetrated much the same sorts of sexual acts;
penetration was equally common and the modus operandi were similar
(i.e. the rates of seduction and enticement, intimidation and threat,
and force or attack were much the same).

The description of the regressed type portrays them as "normal"
heterosexual men who under the pressures of adult family life, turn to
underage people for sexual "comfort". In other words, responsibility
is deflected away from the offender. Once a man has adopted "an adult
sexual relationship" then any deviation from this is the
responsibility of his situation -- which needs to be dealt with,
rather than his sexual orientation towards children.

This might appear reasonable since such men can apparently function
sexually as adults. After all, they are frequently married. But this
does not prove that the other requirement of "regression" is met --
the absence of a concurrent, continuing sexual orientation to
children. In Graham's case, knowing the full details it is hard to
describe him as "regressed". Interviewed in other circumstances, he
might have blamed his offences on his wife's lack of sexual interest
in him or on stress.

So what of married offenders within the family? How could they be
classified as anything other than regressed? Clearly information is
needed about their sexuality and fantasy -- but their honesty is a
prerequisite for this. Take the man who abuses his stepchildren. If
his wife dresses as a child when they have intercourse, if he
fantasizes that she is an 11-year-old and if his offending is not
limited to his stepchildren, would we say that he is a regressed
heterosexual? Presumably not, but this pertinent information may not
be known to us. Given the underreporting of abuse, case records may
lack information about other relevant offences. His therapist may not
seek this information, believing that regression accounts for his
case.

A number of other issues can be raised about the fixation/regression
typology:

(1) It is based on clinical experience with incarcerated
offenders, which may limit its usefulness when applied to the genral
community;
(2) It lacks validation by research.
[Page 20]

Conte (1985) stresses the inadequacy of its underlying theory:

"The typology assumes that sexual contact with children is largely a
function of the failure of normal developmental processes whereby an
adult sees himself primarily as a child and, therefore, seeks sexual
contact with children or a maladaptive response to stress. In fact, no
such connection has been demonstrated.
For example, the onset of sexual contact with children in many cases
cannot be tied to any stress in the adult's life. As many
professionals talk about the typology, they indicate the belief that
fixated offenders are untreatable and regressed treatable. This is an
observation that follows more from studies of incarcerated offenders
...
At present there are no descriptions of community-based offenders
supporting the utility of the fixated and regressed typology nor
suggesting that community treatment of one group is more effective
than treatment of the other."
(Conte, 1985, p. 343)

Reservations are also appropriate about the view that incest is
different from extra-familial abuse, which is based on three
untenable assumptions (Conte, 1985):

1. "Incestuous fathers do not abuse outside the family".

This is undermined by evidence that incest offenders may well be
offending outside the family or raping adult women (Abel et al.,
1983). Similarly, nearly half of offenders who had offended inside the
home against girls had also molested females outside the home, and one
in ten of them had offended against boys outside the home (Becker and
Coleman, 1988).

2. "Incest is the sexual expression of nonsexual needs".

However, all human sexuality involves non-sexual needs like love and
anger. Furthermore, physiological evidence that incest offenders are
sexually aroused by children also invalidates this assumption.
Research shows that incestuous offenders often have erections to nude
depictions of underage children (see Chapter 4). Rather than
incestuous offenders being forced by family circumstances towards
abuse, at least some have the same sexual arousal patterns to
children as extra-familial offenders.

3. "Every member of the family makes a psychological contribution to
the development and maintenance of sexual abuse".

Empirical



evidence that incestuous families are different from others is
unimpressive and largely anecdotal.
Significantly, regressed paedophiles are never homosexuals (Groth and
Birnbaum, 1978). But why cannot stress or sexual deprivation drive
homosexuals to turn to children? The concept of regression seems to be
the problem, not the nature of heterosexuality.
§pamduster
2011-12-16 08:47:17 UTC
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"M.I. Wakefield" <***@present> wrote in message news:8byGq.1315$***@unlimited.newshosting.com...
"Çons®@
2011-12-16 08:52:37 UTC
Permalink
Snip!
Post by LURKER
Are you trying to suggest homosexuals are not "boy lovers"?
§pamduster
2011-12-16 02:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by M.I. Wakefield
Post by Don C.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior. They even admit it.
"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
"Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
Meanwhile, scratching all the pedophiles rarely finds a homosexual.
Martin Phipps
2011-12-16 02:18:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don C.
There's ample precedent to establish the relationship of
homosexuality and pedophile behavior.  They even admit it.
"Kevin Bishop is an admitted pedophile and spokesperson for the
North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). In an
interview with a South Africa paper, Bishop hypothesized,
“Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile."
Hold on. I've heard homosexuals claim that they were born homosexual,
that people are either straight or homosexual and that there's no
choice involved. We also have bisexuals claiming that we are all
bisexual and we just choose to be straight or homosexual. That is
clearly a complete utter contradiction. You can't just simply rely on
what people say. You need to do studies. Perhaps straight,
homosexual and bisexual are all three states that people find
themselves in through no fault of their own. People always consider
their own condition natural. Similarly, a pedophile is going to
consider his condition natural.

I think it needs to be stressed that pedophilia is considered a
psychological disorder but homosexuality is not. Pedophiles need
therapy to control their urges. Homosexuals? Not necessarily. We
are living in a day and age where not all men get married and have
kids. So what if some of them are gay?

What we consider a disorder is relative to circumstances. If an
asteroid were to strike the Earth and a small group of people were to
miraculously survive then I would imagine the gay men would be simply
told to close their eyes, think about Tom Cruise and participate in
the repopulation of the Earth. Keep in mind that the world population
would have been in the millions -not billions- when the Bible was
written and you start to understand why it speaks out against
homosexuality.

Martin
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